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Thursday 2 February 2012

1850 "Bourbon Alphastrike" Venomspam list

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The biggest problems I've had with venomspam is opponents that have a small enough footprint to refused flank. This dilutes my alphastrike and most likely will cause my army to arrive in waves. It's debatable how much better the lanceborn are for this (remember that they only have ~3" of extra effective range and can't deploy sideways out in the open in deployment, or redeploy as effectively). However, it did prompt me to count a list that uses Lady Malys.

Not tried out yet, Lady Malys is an ok combat character, with psydefence for the squad she joins, but more importantly with the possibility to redeploy d3 units (like Eldrad). Suddenly, getting stuff in your opponent's face is not as big an issue. To maximize the use of her redeployment, the Baron seems like the smart choice. However, without access to Haemonculi (and thus troops wracks) taking hellions doesn't seem optimal to me. Thus, this list has none. I've talked about this before, but the baron is just fine without any squad at the start of the game. He jumps up and joins a disembarked squad on t1 (providing stealth and ld, absorbing shots if in trueborn) and shoots off on t2. Can slingshot wyches, go attack tanks and small infantry units, or tie up walkers and HnR out later.

Very similar to the kind of list I used to run (4 warriors and 2 wyches in venoms) but with one less lance (+ without any heatlances), and Malys. Malys is epensive, and that is my main concern. However, I do see this list as more balanced then previous ones. Alphastriking DE work great as long as your opponent lets it work. With a refused flank (and some stuff in reserve) things can turn sour real fast for the DE. Malys should make this easier. Deploy one trueborn venom in the centre, and one on each flank. If you roll a 1-2, move that trueborn squad that is on the wrong flank, if you roll more, look for optimal firing lanes for you ravagers (which originally are deployed in the centre), get the centre trueborns into better range if necessary or look to add vehicle saturation with warrior venoms.

Lady Malys @ 130pts.

Baron Santhonyx @ 105pts.

4 Trueborn with 4 blasters @ 108pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

4 Trueborn with 4 blasters @ 108pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

4 Trueborn with 4 blasters @ 108pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

5 Warriors with blaster @ 60pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

5 Warriors with blaster @ 60pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

5 Warriors with blaster @ 60pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

5 Warriors with blaster @ 60pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

5 Wyches with haywire grenades, hekatrix with venom blade @ 75pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

5 Wyches with haywire grenades, hekatrix with venom blade @ 75pts.
Venom with extra splinter cannon @ 65pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Total @ 1849pts.

Is this "the list". Dunno. Probably not. 25 dark light weapons, the ability to redeploy and +1 to go first. Sure it seems pretty nice. Wyches+ 2 characters for extra options (and those wyches are a lifesaver against mech guard heavy support).

6 comments:

  1. Urgh I hate this list , spam spam spam

    5 wyches do jack all worthwhile, you want at least nine in a squad and FnP before the are worth the bother.

    Where does the baron go ? did you pay 100 pts just for the dice modifer ? thats pretty much a waste.

    It'll function much like any other DE spam list, yawn

    ReplyDelete
  2. No counter arguments to the spam comment. Regarding the baron, I talked about it in the post. He starts alone and jumps up to join a disembarked squad to add resiliency and ld buff. After that he can leapfrog into wyches or go alone and do something. I've played him like that many times and it works fine.

    The wyches are something I've played a lot in the past. The thing with basic venomspam is that you have absolutely no mop up units. 5-man wych groups are pretty good for this, and they provide a squad that baron/malys can join. The haywire grenades are also good in some matches.

    9 wyches with fnp is a very different kind of squad. Very good, but I stand by my five-man groups.

    Thx for the comment.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Alot of the barons benefits really come into play when he is with some hellions, he just seems like a square peg being forced into a round hole here.

    First turn is not so important to DE as you might think, I win plenty of games coming from full reserves (or near enough)and having second turn.

    Maybe it's just me but I would not expect five wyches to do much of anything, even an exploding venom (very likely) will see them crippled to the point of uselessness, smart opponents will try and move their vehicles to cut down on grenade hits, thats another reason to take more of them, if you are in a situation where you need sixes to hit rolling 9-10 dice is fairly reliable for getting a hit or two, my squad took out a furioso before he could swing on monday.

    Venom spam is largely a one trick pony and gets pretty dull to play with quite fast , you really want to paint essentially the same thing nine times ?

    ReplyDelete
  4. I've played the baron and hellions and I agree, he brings alot to the hellions. The first thing I would drop would be the baron aswell. However, I do think going first is a big thing with this list in particular. I've won games from full reserves aswell, but you get the most use out of malys, when going first.

    The wyches are easily crippled by explosions, I agree. More often it's a matter of target priority for your opponent. Rarely will they start with blowing up the wyches (preferring to go for the ravagers and trueborn). The haywire grenades are of varying use depending on your opponents army. Regular auto las preds or anything in the IG heavy support are good examples of great targets for haywire grenades. A fast moving ba razor is not. If you need the extra haywire grenades, put both squads into the same target. That is the primary principle of msu.

    Venomspam is just like any razorspam list (although more aggressive if going for first turn blaster fire). Whether that's dull, you are free to decide. I have been playing around with DE lists that would use a wider variety of units, just haven't found a list that I am happy with. Yes, I do enjoy painting the same thing nine times. I find that repetition (and thus a uniform appereance) is pretty nice in armies.

    There's nothing wrong with discussion, but somehow I feel we just approach the list building process from different angles with our DE lists. That is one of the great things about the new codex, there is no one single list.

    ReplyDelete
  5. but the majority of people, yourself included seem to think Venomspam is the one list..
    As you say there is no need for this one list.

    Half the thing with a uniform appearance is that it helps tie a multitude of units together into an army visually, just for the record, I run non spam lists with a mixture of units, never more than 4 venoms, and I can confidently take that list against anything but certain GK builds.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I admit it that Venomspam is what I've played the most (but not purely), but have I said that it would be the only "one" list? You can find articles on this blog promoting variation and taking alternative builds. What makes you think I would not approve other types of builds? To be honest, why are you attacking my list so aggressively?

    ReplyDelete

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