1750pts. Tau Broadside list, v.2

Played a game with this list versus Grey Knights. The ATC mission system requires getting used to and there are things that I would now do differently. However, I played a draw (winning on kp, drawing bases and losing loot counters) and was pretty happy with the concept. The list just lacked anti-infantry firepower. I might just end up taking fireknives, but I'm going to try out a burstcannon+missilepod+multitracker configuration, because that allows me to take the full 9 crisis suits and upgrade my shasel with some actual weapons. This list should deal with infantry a lot better, at 18'' but even at 36''.

A lot of players swear by 'quantity over quality' on anti-infantry firepower, and this list will try whether that holds true with Tau. I also decided to try more kroot instead of the second firewarrior squad. I am unsure which option would be better, but I'll give the kroot a spin.

Shas'el with airbursting fragmentation projector, target lock, positional relay, bonding knife @ 95pts.

3 Crisis suits with burst cannons, missile pods and multi-trackers @ 150pts.

3 Crisis suits with burst cannons, missile pods and multi-trackers @ 150pts.

3 Crisis suits with burst cannons, missile pods and multi-trackers @ 150pts.

6 Firewarriors @ 60pts.
Devilfish with disruption pods @ 85pts.

10 Kroot Carnivores @ 70pts.

10 Kroot Carnivores @ 70pts.

10 Kroot Carnivores @ 70pts.

3 Broadsides with advanced stabilisation systems, leader with 2 shield drones, bonding knife and hard-wired target lock @ 285pts.

3 Broadsides with advanced stabilisation systems, leader with 2 shield drones, bonding knife and hard-wired target lock @ 285pts.

3 Broadsides with advanced stabilisation systems, leader with 2 shield drones, bonding knife and hard-wired target lock @ 285pts.

Total @ 1750pts.

Tailoring lists or countering the meta? Tau armylist

In your opinion, wherein lies the difference? Meta is a word that many gamers avoid, and imo we first need to define meta. For me, meta means characteristics that are (almost) universally found in armylists at a given time in a given place. I think it would be safe to say, that mech is a strong characteristic of most armies in 5th edition. There is the counter to the trend, horde armies, which have done well at times, but as grey knights become more popular, purifiers will begin to pose a serious problem. At the very least, there is a good chance that horde lists will get knocked out of the competition in the first rounds by Grey Knight players.

Grey Knights require a lot of dedicated anti-tank firepower (preferably with ap1) to take out, meanwhile hordes laugh at that. The question really is, how much are you ready to emphasise antitank and anti-MEQ to help against GK and other marine armies (which are very common).

One of the largest tournaments in Finland is being held at the end of July, and of course I need to start thinking of a list to take there. The tournament might be running ATC-style missions, meaning that there are three objectives (killpoints, 3 obj, bases) each worth 10 battlepoints to the winner (giving a possible max of 30 points). Draw in a win-con is worth points, and a loss 0 points.

Dark Eldar would have serious problem with scoring points from the killpoints department. So, we need a list that can consistently win on objectives and killpoints, is capable of taking 3 objectives (winning objectives 2-1 and at least tying bases), and should be good against the most likely opponents, which is mech and MEQ. I want a list that can really go up against grey knights.

Is this list tailored, or designed taking in mind the current meta?

Shas'el with positional relay, twin-linked flamer @ 71

2 Crisis suits with 2 fusion blasters, 1 plasma rifle and multitracker, 1 twin-linked flamer @ 105pts.

3 Crisis suits with 3 fusion blasters, 3 plasma rifles, 3 multitrackers @ 186pts.

3 Crisis suits with 3 fusion blasters, 3 plasma rifles, 3 multitrackers @ 186pts.

6 Firewarriors with devilfish incl. disruption pods @ 145pts.

6 Firewarriors with devilfish incl. disruption pods @ 145pts.

10 Kroot Carnivores @ 70pts.

3 Broadside suits with advanced stabilisation systems incl. leader with 2 shield drones and hardwired target lock @ 280pts.

3 Broadside suits with advanced stabilisation systems incl. leader with 2 shield drones and hardwired target lock @ 280pts.

3 Broadside suits with advanced stabilisation systems incl. leader with 2 shield drones and hardwired target lock @ 280pts.

Total @ 1748pts.

A Balanced Dark Eldar list?

All the lists I've made, and most that I have seen on the internet, tend to try to win the game in one phase of the game. There are no half measures. Is this the way Dark Eldar should be played? The benefit is focus, the drawback is RPS-syndrome. What happens when your venom spam comes up against post-FAQ deathwing? What happens when your raider-rush crashes into something that can defeat it in CC? This is my attempt at a more balanced list. It has ok CC elements, and pretty good firepower. Give me some feedback!

3 Haemonculi with shattershard, 2 liquifier guns @ 185pts.

5 Incubi with klavex in Venom with 2x cannons @ 190pts.

4 Trueborn with 4 blasters in Venom with 2x cannons @ 146pts.

4 Trueborn with 4 blasters in Venom with 2x cannons @ 146pts.

3 Wracks in Venom with 2x cannons @ 95pts.

3 Wracks in Venom with 2x cannons @ 95pts.

7 Wyches with haywire grenades incl. hekatrix with agoniser in Raider @ 174pts.

7 Wyches with haywire grenades incl. hekatrix with agoniser in Raider @ 174pts.

7 Wyches with haywire grenades incl. hekatrix with agoniser in Raider @ 174pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Total @ 1748pts.

Repainting my tau

I thought it would be fun to repaint my tau army. Here are the first models. Unfortunately, the flash makes the suits hard to make out, but I just couldn't get a focused pic without the flash. Any tips?

Webway portals: A hybrid build?

Alright, so this is the second part of my ponderings on whether webway portals make good builds. Yesterday I talked about a full portal list, today I'm going to talk about hybrid lists, that don't completely rely on reserving and coming through a portal.

An example of this kind of a build might be a gunline army (Loads of lances and splinter cannons) that utilises a webway portal and reaver jetbikes with heatlances. Deploy the portal in the centre of the board, and project a threat area for any tanks your opponent might have. A pretty good way of reinforcing your own midfield presence.

Haemonculus @ 50pts.

5 Trueborn with 3 blasters, 2 dark lances @ 155pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

5 Trueborn with 3 blasters, 2 dark lances @ 155pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Trueborn with 2 dark lances @ 86pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x splinter cannons @ 65pts.

3 Reavers with 1 heatlance @ 78pts.

3 Reavers with 1 heatlance @ 78pts.

3 Reavers with 1 heatlance @ 78pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Total @ 1730pts.

The 3-man reaver units aren't the most reliable, but they will force your opponent to react to the portal, and should provide some sort of push back effect.

On the other hand, a hybrid list might include CC elements coming from the portal. Especially CC units with a large threat range (such as hellions or beastpacks) are very good at this. The effect is similar to that of the reavers in the list above, but instead of threatening tanks with melta, the CC units are providing some counter-punch into the list.

What makes a hybrid list better then a list without a webway portal? Well, it adds further kinds threats, and utilises the concept of 'a ship in port' (I actually read this name off DakkaDakka). You are threatening your opponent with a unit he/she cannot destroy. If played well this can be very effective. Opening up a new front for reserves is something that shouldn't be overlooked.

What makes the hybrid list better then a full portal list? This might be down to preference, but I find a full portal list gimmicky, or a one-trick pony. A hybrid list has more tactical options and generally tries to take strong points from both ends and bring them into one list. The key is to utilise the portal enough to make it worth the points, but not place too much units in reserve (serving a nice portion of your army on the platter with loads of killpoints).

So, there are some of my thoughts on webway portals utilised in a hybrid build. Go ahead and give your own opinion on the topic.

Full Webway portal builds: In or out?

So, today I painted up my webway portal marker, inspired by all the GW artwork of imperial guardsmen being pwned. I thought I'd write up some of my thoughts on webway portals. There are two ways to play them: full portal, or portal-hybrid for lack of a better term.

Full Portal

This is a list which is completely built around the concept of reserving and entering out of webway portals. A list like this needs min 2 portals deployed on opposite sides of the board to make the most use out of them, and making outmanouvering you more difficult. Let's look at the pros.

You save points not buying transport vehicles. That's pretty nice since DE transports are min 60 points and generally don't contribute very many turns to the game anyway. Ofcourse, if you love the new raider/ravager models like me, this will be a major con :D .

Units without a transport option (such as beasts, pain engines and hellions) can be in your opponent's deployment zone without having to withstand a single shooting phase. This can wreck shooty armies. It also migitates the slow speed pain engines to some extent.

How about the cons? Well the first is that you need a way to deliver those portals (preferrably on t1). This means starting something on the table. If you're playing 2 portals, that means minimum 4 kill points (2 haemonculi and 2 venoms/raiders) that you are serving to your opponent on the platter. However, we have to remember that portal lists don't have as many av10 transports, so perhaps the 4 killpoints are an acceptable loss?

Another con is predictability. Your opponent knows where you are coming from, and can plan accordingly. Not a big con, but somethinbg to keep in mind. This makes bubblewraping and other forms of blocking easier for your opponent.

Last, and perhaps the largest con is voluntarily going into reserve. My Raider rush list will most often have to reserve when going second, but a portal list will do it every time. This means you are preparing to bring 50% of your army up against 100% of your opponent's on t2. In my opinion, this doesn't work well with the fragile nature of dark eldar. In many ways, the lightly armoured but well equipped Dark Eldar units are meant to drown opponents with high priority targets. Atleast, that is my philosophy, When reserving, you only bring 50% of those units to bear.

However, one easily forgets that we aren't paying for those transport vehicles. Wouldn't a portal list thus have more units and thus get more into that 50% then other lists would? I think time will tell how effective full portal lists turn out to be. They don't fight my playstyle, although I would take a second look if Dark Eldar had gotten some form of reserve manipulation.

I'll try and write about a portal-hybrid army tomorrow. In essence, it is similar to the talos build I talked about yesterday. You begin most of your army on the table (thus making placing the portals easier) and only open up another front for your reserves (generating a threat area that your opponent has to react to). I think, a hybrid list is much more viable, although it has its own problems.

What are your thoughts on full-portal lists?

Dark Eldar Talos

Hi,
I don't wanna spend close to 100e on triple talos, before I've had the chance to try whether they actually work. Thus, there's a picture for you guys of my first converted talos.

So, the question really is, are Talos better then Ravagers? Of course, that depends on the build, but generally it would seem that the cheap price per lance that you pay on ravagers is better. However, My test games got me thinking. The ravagers go down really fast, and thus normally contribute 1, max 2 rounds of shooting. In a CC orientated army, would the Talos have more synergy? Haven't tried them on the table, but in my opinion they open up a few builds. Here's a list:

5 Haemonculi incl. 1 webway portal @ 285pts.

8 Blood Brides with haywire grenades incl. syren with agoniser @ 150pts.
Raider with enhanced aethersails @ 65pts.

8 Wyches with haywire grenades incl. Hekatrix with agoniser @ 126pts.
Raider @ 60pts.

8 Wyches with haywire grenades incl. hekatrix with agoniser @ 126pts.
Raider @ 60pts.

8 Wyches with haywire grenades incl. hekatrix with agoniser @ 126pts.
Raider @ 60pts.

8 Wyches with haywire grenades incl. hekatrix with agoniser @ 126pts.
Raider @ 60pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

Talos with haywire blaster @ 105pts.

Talos with haywire blaster @ 105pts.

Talos with haywire blaster @ 105pts.

Total @ 1749pts.

5 lances, 4 splinter cannons. That sure doesn't look impressive. However, this list plays similar to the Necron build I was playing: suppression fire (or combat in this case) followed by MC CC attacks to destroy tanks. The Talos will survive for longer then the ravagers. The list has a webway portal, but I'm not intending on using it in each game, it just gives me more options (e.g. some armies absolutely fear t7 in CC, and a portal in the middle of the board with pain engines in reserve can spook them).

The problem with the talos is, that they are slow. I'm expecting them to come in later in the game, and either charge tanks that need to be destroyed (and haven't been by the haywire grenades) or bring armour save ignoring attacks into combats involving the wyches (that's why this list doesn't include incubi). t7 MC in the midfield are still a huge advantage late into the game. I'm hoping the 40 fnp wyches will keep my opponent busy (or reserving the talos). The haywire blasters are great for suppressing fire support vehicles that my wyches can't afford to charge (hello vendettas and predators).

So, what do you guys think? I love the new talos models, so if this works I'll get to buy and use them, but I haven't tried it yet. Could it work? We'll see.

Why I think Incubi are a great option

Hi guys,
I thought I'd share some thoughts on why I think Incubi are a good choice in any Dark Eldar list that is aiming into close combat. Incubi are good beater units on their own, but to get the most out of them, you have to use them together with other units, such as whyches.

The raider rush list that I used as a base for my own list was Ben Mohlie's from the ATC. It originally had a Court of the Archon in it, but I decided to swap it out for incubi. This was because I felt that the list lacked power weapons. Disintegrators and dark lances can make up for this, but in the case of the raider rush list, it was already very low on lances, and so I decided I needed something to punch through heavy armour in CC. The incubi are just simply better at this.

Incubi have a nice ws5 which means they'll be hitting most opponents on a 3+. They have an ok amount of attacks (3 on the charge) and str4 so you should be forcing those armour save ignoring wounds on your opponents. They also have I5, but this is largely countered by their lack of grenades. You can use Archons with phantasm launchers, but although I also originally used an archon (see last post) I personally feel you need all the points you can get.

Most CC characters don't bring enough to the army outside of CC. This is why you don't see Captains in vanilla armies, but you see a librarian. Similarly, lately I've been thinking of dropping the archon in favour of lance trueborn.

One of the problems of incubi is t3 and no invulnerable. As you lose your I5 when charging through cover, you don't get to kill off your enemies before they swing at you. Especially sergeants with armour save ignoring weapons are a pain to incubi. This is where whyches come in.

This is a tactic I originally learned from the Finnish ETC team's captain when we were talking about mega nobz (he is a long time Ork player). My wagon list featured four units of 3 meganobz and one 20-man slugga boy mob. He encouraged me to drop some meganobz and take a second boy mob. Similarly to incubi, mega nobz can deal out a lot of armour save ignoring wounds in CC, but suffer from the lack of an invulnerable save.

The philosophy with meganobz+sluggaboyz is to first charge in with the sluggaboy, moving into B2B with most of the opponents unit (in the case of a 20-man mob probably the entire unit). This will tie in the power fist and power weapons. After that you can charge in the mega nobz, moving into CC with 3 models from the unit and safe from the sergeant.

This same tactic should be applied to incubi. When charging an enemy unit, you can make good use of the 4++ and FNP of whyches in CC, and move the whyches first (tying the deadly CC models) and then bring in the incubi. For example:

You have a tactical squad with power fist sarge standing beside a razorback (they probably disembarked to melta your raiders the last turn) and you have a squad of incubi and whyches nearby. The whyches first charge the razorback (with haywire grenades) and move the hekatrix into B2B with the power fist sarge. You ensure that the incubi are not within range to charge the power fist sarge and they move into B2B with the regular tactical marines. This way you get 8 haywire grenades into the razorback, one agoniser and the incubi into the tac marines, and your incubi will only need to survive the regular attacks of the tac marines in CC.

This is the reason why I think Incubi best fit an army that is already heavily geared towards CC. That way you have the best chances to use the incubi in tandem with the other units (protecting the incubi and getting combat resolution in combats that the whyches need help in). Similarly, I think that the incubi fill a vacuum in CC dark eldar armies, armour save ignoring wounds. One agoniser per a unit might not be enough against some opponents (and wound allocation can spoil it), so it is good to have a large unit of power weapon armed space elves nearby, to help turn the tide.

Here's also the latest 1750 list, without the archon (feel free to comment):

3 Haemonculi @ 150pts.

3 Trueborn with 2 dark lances @ 86pts.

3 Trueborn with 2 dark lances @ 86pts.

8 Incubi @ 176pts.
Raider @ 60pts.

9 Whyches with haywire grenades incl hekatrix with agoniser @ 138pts.
Raider with enhanced aethersails @ 65pts.

9 Whyches with haywire grenades incl hekatrix with agoniser @ 138pts.
Raider with enhanced aethersails @ 65pts.

9 Whyches incl hekatrix with agoniser @ 120pts.
Raider with enhanced aethersails @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Ravager @ 105pts.

Evolution of my Dark Eldar list

Hi guys,

So I read Space Curve's battle report from the ATC to check out the Dark Eldar list he's been using, and I decided to take a modified 1750 list for a little spin. The learning curve with such a sensitive list is steep, but I saw the potential in the kind of list he was using. I lost both games, but was truly impressed by the whyches and got some fun and tight games.

It's very low on lances (I might change the wracks' venoms to raiders) which makes it a little hit and miss, and it won't fare well against mech Grey Knights. However, the haywire grenades help against big parking lots. The army will have to reserve against shooty armies if going second.

Anyway, here is a pic of my converted archon and the latest DE list.



Archon with agoniser, combat drugs, shadow field and phantasm grenade launcher @ 145pts.

3 Haemonculi @ 150pts.

9 Incubi @ 198pts.
Raider with dark lance @ 60pts.

9 Whyches with haywire grenades incl Hekatrix with agoniser @ 138pts.
Raider with dark lance, enhanced aethersails @ 65pts.

9 Whyches with haywire grenades incl Hekatrix with agoniser @ 138pts.
Raider with dark lance, enhanced aethersails @ 65pts.

9 Whyches with haywire grenades incl Hekatrix with agoniser @ 138pts.
Raider with dark lance, enhanced aethersails @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

3 Wracks @ 30pts.
Venom with 2x cannons @ 65pts.

Ravager with dark lances @ 105pts.

Ravager with dark lances @ 105pts.

Ravager with dark lances @ 105pts.